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A non Bugatti Mystery Roadster (Upd. 1912-14 Gregoire?)

A non Bugatti Mystery Roadster (Upd. 1912-14 Gregoire?)

  • A non Bugatti Mystery Roadster (Upd. 1912-14 Gregoire?)


A fine roadster of sharp design, very nicely cut front wings and black or at least dark painted disc wheel covers. The crumpled photo came to Bugatti afficionado Jaap Horst for identification. As it isn't a Bugatti he placed the picture on our desk. We think the photo must have a british history, at least that is what we conclude based on the wellknown sidelights. So presumably it is a british made car. Or?

Upon further inspection I am not so sure it is a RHD car. In that case the 'door' would give a comfortable wayin & out. Except that the spare tyre - or what is it - seems to be in the way.

Gepubliceerd:
zondag maart 3rd, 2013

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Onbekend
09 Maart 2013, 09:38
My knowledgeable friend now thinks "Gregoire" 1912-14.
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David Barker
08 Maart 2013, 20:18
A very knowledgeable friend of mine suggests Austro Daimler D380. But isn't sure!
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Onbekend
07 Maart 2013, 18:26
Maybe 1917 Dodge Brothers. The Romeo Hornstead Special. ( Landspeed & Brooklands chap)
James Ewing may indeed know more.
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David Barker
07 Maart 2013, 09:03
[quote name="Mark Roberts"] . Barely evident just above the leading tip of the front mudgaurd is the straight line of the honeycombe radiator against the top of the header tank. I was initially thinking Hispano Suiza Alfonso, but I think it's a 1913 Delage Type A1, rebodied in England C1920 as a Grosvenor sports roadster.....[/quote]
No, not a Delage, The scuttle is wrong, AIs had a filler cap in the centre. And the radiator filler cap and its neck are not Delage either. (IMHO!)
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Onbekend
06 Maart 2013, 11:20
I´m not convinced that its a Delage D1. If you look at the bonnet/scuttle line the Bonnet appears roundish at the top opposed to the Delages more square/rooftop shaped bonnet and radiator. I think the rad must be much more like a bugattis (yes I know it isn´t) but the shape must be close. Also the swage lines from early Delage rads are missing. I do hope that someone comes up with a good idea as I dont like these unsolved mysteries.
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Onbekend
05 Maart 2013, 01:50
I saved the photo into my pc picture library, then enlarged it. The spare wheel is definately on the RHS. Note the slot in the runnung board. Has been removed for the photo. There's certainly a door on the RHS as well. Note the verticle lever just near the sleeve cuff of the driver. I reckon the driver is sitting on the LHS. There's a small verticle wiper blade (hand operated? on that side as well. The hubs are hexagonal. Barely evident just above the leading tip of the front mudgaurd is the straight line of the honeycombe radiator against the top of the header tank. I was initially thinking Hispano Suiza Alfonso, but I think it's a 1913 Delage Type A1, rebodied in England C1920 as a Grosvenor sports roadster.....
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Onbekend
05 Maart 2013, 01:45
I believe this is most assuredly a right-hand drive car: there's a wheel well in the running board and below the door you can see the lubrication point for the handbrake/gearshift. As there are no headlight and the spare wheel is absent I'd say our sporting driver is planning a high-speed adventure. The essentially useless door is not uncommon in cars of this period. Sometimes it wasn't a door but just a removable panel for maintenance access. In this case there's a handle on top of the door, so it will probably open, but only as far as that bracket permits. A rough measurement suggests the bracket will support the spare when it's fitted.

No idea what make it is, sadly.
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Onbekend
04 Maart 2013, 23:57
I think the car is right hand drive. The dummy door is there for lines. You can clearly see the spare wheel holder and the curve underneath the running board is a recess where the wheel would have sat. You can make out the opening on top of the running board. I have a similar arrangement on my Darracq and with the spare wheel in place there would be no way a door could be used.

The car has electric sidelights so i would hazard a guess at post 1912. I can't see enough to identify though sorry.
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David Barker
04 Maart 2013, 22:54
[quote name="Peter Dew"]isn't that the spare wheel slung low on the other side of the car, visible underneath ?[/quote]

No! The spare wheel well is in the near side running board and what looks like a rather long door handle is where the strap attaches and goes round the tyre. The "door" is certainly NOT a door!
It also looks as tho' there are forks for the headlamps, but no lamps, the car also looks very clean so perhaps it has just come out of the coachbuilders. It is almost certainly Right hand drive , the vast majority of Continental cars were in the twenties. Delage was one of the first to offer LHD in about 1923, but he was the exception.
David Barker.
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Onbekend
04 Maart 2013, 16:47
isn't that the spare wheel slung low on the other side of the car, visible underneath ?
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Onbekend
04 Maart 2013, 15:24
Is it possible that the body is elevated from the chassis?
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Onbekend
04 Maart 2013, 08:53
I'm not sure that is a door - may just be a body join/moulding. The spare wheel (missing in photo) would prevent access from this side.
Sorry, nothing useful to add on ID of vehicle.
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Onbekend
04 Maart 2013, 01:22
The wierd location of the door should help someone . Looks hard to get into or out of, worse if it had a top.
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