A Packard bodied Rolls Mystery..?

Hi, I'm just undertaking some research on other matters, however Herbert Frederick Cooper is across the documentation I've been reading. My wife's maiden name is Fiona Cooper, she is Herbert's granddaughter. Fiona's mother and sister now reside in Perth Australia and we will be visiting them in December, 2023. Is the car local to Perth? If so, would there be a possibility of arranging a photograph with them and the car? This must read as a very random request, but totally understand if you may not reply.

and for completeness, the blue Packard is a 1921 116 with Packard factory body

The body is remarkably similar to the Packard series 343 (143,243, then 343, 1923-1927). My 1927 343 touring body is very similar. The Packard has a 143 inch wheel base and can be identified as a 143 and not 136 wheel base by the Dickie Seats, which this car apparently has.

Wow, what a fantastic response from everybody! Thank you. The NZ history is a real eye opener and I'm not surprised that the identity of the body is very likely Packard, not H F Cooper. Packard also built RR Merlin engines, so there's another minor historical link between the two manufacturers! Tom, GF63 still resides in Australia and I've owned your wonderful book now for more than 10 years. Your insight was very detailed and much appreciated. We intend having the car at the 55th RROCA National Rally in Adelaide this year. Website details: http://sa55.org/
Cheers Mark

GF63 falls outside the scope of the book I co-authored with David Neely in 1999 called Rolls-Royce and Bentley in the Sunburnt Country: the first fifty years in Australia. That includes all Rolls-Royces sold to the country new, or near new, from 1906 to roughly 1960; and it includes foreign and local coachbuilders of those cars, which means cars bodied there new or rebodied there in earlier years. GF63 is a much later arrival after 1960 (and now a departure as well) so isn't in the book.

I suspect somebody found the H. F. Cooper body years later and modified it to fit. Alternatively, you can't be too careful - it could be a standard body from a well-known make like Packard and then a Cooper plate added to create some provenance. The fact that it's steel-skinned is interesting - big trade coachbuilders used steel but bespoke coachbuilders making one-off bodies usually used aluminium, although often with steel mudguards (wings). It's odd that the centre portion of the body doesn't have a cross-beam with fixed front seat (unlike the blue Packard in your photos which has a more rigid body).

The mudguards on this car could be the original Hooper but are probably replicas in a more English style compared to the body itself. Certainly not the Packard type. The fact that the body has such simple doors with square corners, and very little style, implies cheaper origins I think.

The Cooper on the plate is the famous Cooper (later of Putney S.W.15) who were body brokers, buying up surplus or older bodies for recycling on other cars. They advertised bodies all the time in The Autocar and The Motor. Researcher Andrew Minney has found information on them: Herbert Frederick Cooper, born ca 1894, started the company in Shepherd's Bush, west London (hence the W.12 on the coachplate) and he was originally a coachbuilder into the 1920s. He moved to Putney in 1930 and the company gradually specialised in body broking and rebodying. It is therefore possible that in the earlier period, 1920s, Cooper built his own bodies but in the case of GF63 I still suspect it was a rebadged standard body from another make.

All the best,
Tom
:: Tom Clarke ::

Cooper Motor Bodies traded in used coachbuild bodies, which they also
would fit to a chassis if requested.
his was not an uncommon practice at
the time. It could mean the original
body either was worn out, or that the
then current body was not what the
owner required, or, in the trade made
a good chassi more diffilcult to trade.

Cornering enthusiastically in my Austin Seven Chummy causes the tyres to rub on the heads of bolts in the rear wheel arches so I endeavour to keep the speed down on twisting roads and only open her up on long straights.
Graham.

[quote name="Grant"]I remember this car well from Tauranga, NZ, in the mid 1960's, and had wondered from time to time what had happened to it. It was found as a chassis and fitted with the factory Packard touring body when restored. The HF Cooper coachbuilders plate is a total red herring designed to mislead the unwary and should be removed as it has no place on the car. Either accept the car for what it is or donate the body to a poor and needy Packard owner and build something more suitable.[/quote]


I too remember this car in the Tauranga area in the 1960's. There were many Aucklanders that belonged to the Waikato Veteran and Vintage Car Club who accepted Post Vintage Cars and at that time the Vintage Car Club of N.Z. [and it's Branches] did not. When the Waikato Club joined the Vintage Car Club of N.Z. we were forced to join the Auckland Branch however, a group of us made sure that the Nationional Body came to accept Post Vintage cars. The Waikato Veteran and Vintage Car Club had many of their Rallies to Tauranga. For the owner of this car I would recommend contacting the Vintage Car Club of N.Z. as the car must have appeared in the club magazine 'Beaded Wheels'.

You the very best from both worlds. Very posh mix if I may say so

I remember this car well from Tauranga, NZ, in the mid 1960's, and had wondered from time to time what had happened to it. It was found as a chassis and fitted with the factory Packard touring body when restored. The HF Cooper coachbuilders plate is a total red herring designed to mislead the unwary and should be removed as it has no place on the car. Either accept the car for what it is or donate the body to a poor and needy Packard owner and build something more suitable.

According to the book "The Rolls-Royce Twenty" by John Fasal, GF63 is a 1923 Twenty with a Mann Egerton tourer body. Has Mark contacted John Fasal? He's the expert on Twenties. Tom Clarke is another expert, particularly on coachwork.