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A Fiat 2800 ambulance mystery?



George Nica from Romania reports:  "For a couple of years I am researching a Fiat 2800 that once was running in Romania. (editor: it was depicted on a mid seventies post-card and was seen in 2005 with the registration  1-SJ-2831. Last week I found the car and bought it instantly! It is in a terrible state, missing its engine, gearbox, central bonnet badge and unfortunately both axles are adapted from a truck or so. My car has a wheel base of approximately 3200 mm. While doing searches on the web I learned that only 621 chassis were made (624 according to other sources) of which:
- 12 were bodied as Torpedo by Viotti  for Hitler’s visit in 1938
- 288 were bodied as berlina/saloon/sedan 
- 210 were military cars having a shorter chassis (3000mm wheelbase instead of 3200mm) – Fiat 2800CMC
- 111 chassis received other body types like race cars or utility vehicles. Out of these 111 chassis left can be mentioned the Fiat 2800 Touring Carozzeria Superleggera in Cacapava museum, the Stanguelini 2800 race car or the “furgone su telaio”. The car with the chassis number 000621 ( edit.: the very last one made?) has engien number 000696 which suggestss suggests that more engines were made than chassis.

Here comes the mystery: my car does not fit in with any of the known types. Judging from the white paint under the blue and the rear door it may have been an ambulance. Has anyone access to the factory records? Is it a one off? Who was the coachbuilder?

(editor: George, your car looks a lot like a variety on the standard berlina; it should be possible to track down information about this variety)

 I would also like to listen the PWC community advice in...." 

Gepubliceerd:
dinsdag mei 6th, 2014
Lorenzo Arrigoni
04 September 2023, 08:42
l'auto è in vendita?
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Onbekend
12 Mei 2014, 18:46
Thank you for your offer George, but i'm too busy actually. There was a luggage rack on the roof and the rear door is a standard door for a promiscuo vehicle. For the Italian road rules of the period promiscuo means that you could to transport people and goods together.
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Onbekend
11 Mei 2014, 21:24
Hi Paolo,
You may be right, but still the rear doors windows do not have gliding handles or mechanism: they look like they are fixed. On the top metal sheet(roof) there are some holes which may sugest something was mounted.
The car has TIMKEN axles very similar to 1940/1950 Ford truck. I am almost sure these were mounted in the 50' otherwise the romanian craftsman would have a better match in offroad car ARO mechanical parts. Or maybe the car was not modified in Romania?
If you are interested in seing the car you can welcome to visit; the car is located at 10 minutes of walk from the Henri Coanda International Airport near Bucharest. You can also write me to my email.
Thank you,
George
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Onbekend
10 Mei 2014, 20:25
George, you don't know how able could be a Turin coachbuilder. I'm an historian of the Turin coachbuilder and i live here in Turin.
This isn't a factory model and by the way: who said it's home made? I didn't see the chassis so i can't judge about it, probably in the past somebody need to drive the vehicle at any cost and made a bad job just to drive along.
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Onbekend
09 Mei 2014, 09:55
Thank you all for your messages.
R. Mawer: The rear axle is definitely adapted, the wheel is 7.5R20 having 10 bolts.
Wilfried.brunner: Using BLR/ELR axles is a good idea. The axles are wider and i believe they are stronger too.
Volganeagra & Paolo: I am realy skeptical thr car is modified from a sedan, and even if it is, is definitely not home made. I've had and seen many prewar modified cars and this is by far the most perfect one. Too much simetry and no interior welds visible. So if it was modified, this was done when new or almost new, otherwise it wouldn't make sense why the body is so perfect and the chassis welds for adapting the axles are horror.
I also have the aluminum serial number plate: 000261 (top number) 000306 (bottom number) . The usual fiat numbering is engine serial on top and chassis serial on bottom.
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Onbekend
09 Mei 2014, 07:37
Here is a Romanian Chrysler which has had similar - though more extreme - treatment
https://plus.google.com/photos/114513803500219534686/albums/5314830084300335377/5322011707061507394?banner=pwa&pid=5322011707061507394&oid=114513803500219534686
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Onbekend
08 Mei 2014, 18:09
I'm very excited.
I did research on this car because I'm restoring for the past three years, the FIAT 2800 sedan chassis number 7. amazing car, very complex. My originates from Paraguay and was the coach of high representative of the Royal Embassy of Italy. Fortunately mine is very complete with its original engine and the interior. The original color is black with gray interior and the driver's seat in teal. Frames windows light green briar. Details like the wheels and the grille in red china. the only modification inquiries concerning the carburetor to which they removed the Zenith of origin (malfunction) with a beautiful Weber 40 that was used in racing cars. We try to put together some information on this vehicle magnificent that no one knows. ARRANGE dozens of original designs and many many photos of the historical center FIAT thanks to the invaluable help of Dr. Castagnola.thanks
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Onbekend
08 Mei 2014, 14:59
This car is clearly a standard sedan transformed in a giardinetta promiscuo after the WWII.
By the way, the cars built for the 1938 Fuhrer visit weren't Fiat 2800s, but Lancia Astura (4 at all) coached by Pininfarina and not by Viotti.
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Onbekend
08 Mei 2014, 12:52
I've long been interested in this car, having failed to buy it in 2005. I would say it's a prewar modification of a standard 2800 berlina. There were plenty of these modifications around (a 1938 Chrysler which is very similar still exists in Romania) and some of them were quite well done. Best is to check for evidence of welding around the rear 3/4.

I would say fit modern until you find original. Due to the body modification this car will never satisfy the purists anyway. But what a piece of history!
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Onbekend
07 Mei 2014, 14:40
Fiat 6c 1500 axles have the normal 4 Bolt wheels like the 1100, to small
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Onbekend
07 Mei 2014, 14:37
Hi, year's ago I had a Fiat 1100 BLR with original Truck-type axles, you can Google (Fotos) that, maybe the back one is original. Great Car you have, don't restore it, great Patina, Willy
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R.Mawer
07 Mei 2014, 10:11
This is a very interesting vehicle!Are you sure the back axle is a replacement, George? I can see there is not much clearance from the mudguard at the front edge,but the wheel looks quite interesting,& good, I think, & is smaller than most of that kind.

Please do not fit modern axles, engine & gearbox-when this happens, the vehicle is a "custom car" & usually, never gets changed back to original. I thought the Hanomag Sturm had been spoiled!
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