PreWar Cars at Rétromobile 2013

Sort of like in the 1920`s Colonial antiques boom . Dealers would take one real , original Colonial four-poster bed , and " restore " it into FOUR " Restored Original Colonial " four poster beds , each having ONE ORIGINAL POST from the real bed . They would then sell the four beds as " Real , Truely Original Restorations " of Colonial antiques , and quadruple their money . Some fun , Huh ??

Although i understand the excitement when you find out that some parts of your car have a racing history, i still think it's a good thing to leave a car which obviously has been gathering history in this entitiy alone. Even when this history is unknown or not that spectacular. maybe if you have all the parts and you can recreate a very special car. But in this case I understand it is just a chassis and the rest is from different sources some old others new. I think it's wrong to claim or even suggest the identity of the T51a Anne Cecile Itier car.

It all feels a bit like breaking down a 13th century monastry to retrieve some roman bricks to rebuild a roman temple

The problem it brings back an object but it doesn't brings back historic value

editor- maybe we missunderstood your comment:
"the Bugatti is basically T51A chassis. This car was built on the basis of the car that was campaigned by Anne Cecile Itier. However the T51 chassi was restored back to a GP car. And the body has been restored making use of a new chassis"
I assume the GP Type 51a Bugatti chassis 51142 raced by Anne Cecile Itier was later re-bodied as a road car. Was this with a Bugatti body or a reproduction body on chassis 51142
The GP Chassis 51142 was changed back to a type 51a Bugatti with another reproduction body?
The Bugatti or reproduction road car body was then fitted to a reproduction? chassis?
Have I got this right - sorry to be so long winded.

editor: the history is slightly more complicated. The T51A of Anne Cecile Itier was delivered as a T35 in 1926. In 1931 it was returned to Molsheim who converted the car into a cheap T51A for Mrs. Itier. She raced the car extensively and it also became known for the race against an aeroplane at Montlhéry. Prior to the war the car presumbaly lost its engine and re-appeared with a T38 engine, pre-series T57 gearbox and a one off roadster body of an up to this day unknown coachbuilder. The full history including the GP background only came out when Henrik Schou-Nielsen started the restoration; all this was confirmed by Bugatti expert Pierre Yves Laugier. Henrik decided to rebuild the GP car and found an original GP body (at PreWarCar). The GP engine is a reconstruction based on an original engine for which a new twin cam head was made. After all this Henrik remained with the T38 engine, the T57 gearbox, the spoke wheels and the wonderfull yet unidentified body. He decided to rebuild the roadster based on these components and a new chassis. Up to you all to judge. I also like to refer to the Newsletter we sent out before Retromobile. See: http://www.prewarcar.com/index2.php?option=com_yanc&act=archive&task=view&cid=110&Itemid=88&no_html=1

Joris Bergsma

for those of you who think it's ok to change things just because they're yours, please see

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2003/mar/31/artsfeatures.turnerprize2003

Tony,

I completely agree with you that it doesn't feel right and it might be the first step into fraud. But in this case the owner is very open about what he did. So in my humble opinion he is merely a barbarian, perhaps a fool but not a criminal. Owning a knife doesn't make you a murderer.

P.S. I hope in the future someone will reunite body and chassis and engine. But that goes for a lot of cars. a couple of years ago i visited a warehouse in northern germany filled with prewar mercedes saloon body's. which they had scalped to make roadsters

editor: it is most intersting what some of you write. For instance the above. I wonder if you really understand what the case is when you were judging. Pieter writes about 'reuniting chassis, engine and body'. Now I wonder which body he likes to reunite with which chassis and which engine? What is against restoring a wellknown GP and making good use of the remaining non original parts? It is my feeling that some of you not really have given good thought about the whole idea of what's presented here.

Pieter,

"But I agree that when you'r the owner you can do what you want with it, as long as you don't try to sell it on as an original"

Unfortunately that is what often happens when you have a pair of cars made from one, each with something of the original.
With Austin Sevens, possibly not too bad, but when you reach the stratosphere of Bugatti etcetera then you can have difficulties.
Not my problem thankfully.

Tony.

Re fakery (or not), the problem usually arises with a subsequent owner who feels the car is not famous enough (or who paid too much...)

We had one original car with a full history and we ended with a buggy and a hotrod.

But i agree that when your the owner you can do what you want with it, as long as you don't try to sell it on as an original

on all sites about the retromobile, you see pictures of the MB`s green Prince Henry Benz from 1910, but nowhere one of the Louwmann collection one.
maybe you can do it, editor ?

regards
mike

Yes. The rolling chassis was the part of the car that Bugatti would have made, wasn't it, not the body ?

I am not sure, but this sounds like two Bugattis from one.
Not at all the original 'oily rag' car that we love to see.
Takes all types doesn't it.
Tony.

I sure could use the 1913 Renault DM to clean up my driveway after the Blizzard of 2013. Here in Dunbarton we got 30" of snow from this storm.
PS: I have always thought the 37/38 Fords were great looking cars.

Why so upset ? What he did was build a car like a Bugatti, but as nice as it is, that doesn't make it a Bugatti, does it ?

editor: hi Peter, not sure what you mean. Do you refer to the fact the roadster was rebuilt making use of a new chassis?

so; a genuine fake ?

editor: a fake of what?
you can think of it how you like, but Henrik Schou-Nielsen is at least totally open about what he did.

those must have been the days in Paris when Cartier needed a delivery van. How about the Bugatti; is a shortened chassis 57 ?

editor: the Bugatti is basically T51A chassis. This car was built on the basis of the car that was campaigned by Anne Cecile Itier. However the T51 chassi was restored back to a GP car. And the body has been restored making use of a new chassis