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PWC Workshop question: metric Morse chainlinks issue
Driving your classic car means frequent maintenance & repairs. Sometimes it is easy and you will get away with adjustments but - quite often - the 'little issue' change takes the form of a ' small project'. Often you want to exchange tow worn or broken part. This comes with a new set of problems. Jeff Jones had this problem with his 1924 Fiat 519.
He needs to replace a 1/2 Morse timing chainlink but cannot find it anywhere and hopes someone can tell him where to find it. As you can see it is not the kind of part that you will easily refrabicate in your own workshop. But for sure somebody on this globe did it once . Jeff Jones like to get in touch with people who recognise the issue or may have a chain in stock.
He writes: "I am a reader of your pages (brilliant), since you first came on the web, I don't recall seeing a request for information before but I am desperate. Can anyone advise me where I can get a 1/2 link for the Morse timing chain for my '24 Fiat 519. It's 43mm. wide, 13mm. pitch and is with centre guide, Type s.c.
I've tried all the English magazine advertisers, Ali baba and various other web sites and various one make clubs. All to no available. Morse U.S.A. don't seem contactable and the Australian agents don't seem capable of understanding what I want. Some people have told me that they don't make metric Morse.
I've been using measuring sticks since I started tecnical training in 1949 and I do know how to measure. 43mm. is not a common metric dimension but is much more likely than 1.6925 inches which is the direct imperial equivalent. Similarly, My Vernier caliper shows 13mm. and not 0.512inches. Please hurry, Ive been trying to find a link for four months and I was only 82 when I started so I don't know how much longer I can wait."
Gepubliceerd:
dinsdag augustus 30th, 2016
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Reacties
Onbekend
02 September 2016, 04:18
OK... good news I think. I can source a complete 51 pin chain, the listing says for engine numbers after 912160
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Onbekend
01 September 2016, 06:39
Thank you all for your comments.
The first line of my second paragraph I thought explained that I would have contacted Rodney Fowler who was, as always most courteous but unable to help. The designation 's.c.' is Morse code (geddit?) for silent chain and they're also known as 'internal tooth' chain.
I've emailed Ramsey but no reply as yet.
I'm waiting with bated breath for further News from Tony Haycock in News Ealand. Sounds promising!!.
Jury member and old mate P.Transom suggests that those of you who suggested re- sprocketing for roller chain are probably not aware that the 519 has the chain drive integral with the crankshaft and is situated between the rear main and the rear rear main which supports the flywheel.
A wise old restorer (me) says that you can fix anything if you throw enough money/time at it but I think that in this instance, re-sprocketing is not an option. Thanks to all
Jeff.
Lees verder
The first line of my second paragraph I thought explained that I would have contacted Rodney Fowler who was, as always most courteous but unable to help. The designation 's.c.' is Morse code (geddit?) for silent chain and they're also known as 'internal tooth' chain.
I've emailed Ramsey but no reply as yet.
I'm waiting with bated breath for further News from Tony Haycock in News Ealand. Sounds promising!!.
Jury member and old mate P.Transom suggests that those of you who suggested re- sprocketing for roller chain are probably not aware that the 519 has the chain drive integral with the crankshaft and is situated between the rear main and the rear rear main which supports the flywheel.
A wise old restorer (me) says that you can fix anything if you throw enough money/time at it but I think that in this instance, re-sprocketing is not an option. Thanks to all
Jeff.
Onbekend
01 September 2016, 06:32
I think the replies below show what a strong community we have in the old car world, and what a depth of knowledge is out there. Good luck.
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Onbekend
31 Augustus 2016, 21:17
Judging from 1 picture, it's for sure not the easiest part to refabricate but for sure it's possible. I'm a big fan of the philosophy "if they could make it 100 years ago, I can make it now." Lasercutting and CNC technology make parts like these much easier to make than years and years ago. If you can't find anything premade, you can contact me via the editor for this part.
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Onbekend
31 Augustus 2016, 11:45
Try these people.
http://www.mcmaster.com
In the past I have had sprockets made and solved all problems.
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http://www.mcmaster.com
In the past I have had sprockets made and solved all problems.
Onbekend
31 Augustus 2016, 10:47
Not sure if it helps but here goes. I have seen laser cut parts in the last few years with astonishing finish. If its the 2D part of the chain you need why not laser cut them?
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Onbekend
31 Augustus 2016, 09:45
These inverted tooth chains can be a problem - Delage for ezample used a 3/8 pitch on the DI, and a 10mm on the DISS (The 10mm pitch chain is not available, and I have known people to re-make the worn pins from silver-steel!)
The majority of chains were imperial sizes, even in Europe, and now there are limited sources, often the simplest / cheapest way round the problem is to re-engineer to take say a duplex / triplex roller chain.
If you look on the Cross-Morse UK website there is an incredible amount of data as to type, pitch etc. they also sell gears with "soft" bores to enable one to machine to suit.
Another site worth looking at is that of Wippermann.com - they are an old supplier from pre-war days (Delage etc) who also have a lot of useful data and may be able to help.
Lees verder
The majority of chains were imperial sizes, even in Europe, and now there are limited sources, often the simplest / cheapest way round the problem is to re-engineer to take say a duplex / triplex roller chain.
If you look on the Cross-Morse UK website there is an incredible amount of data as to type, pitch etc. they also sell gears with "soft" bores to enable one to machine to suit.
Another site worth looking at is that of Wippermann.com - they are an old supplier from pre-war days (Delage etc) who also have a lot of useful data and may be able to help.
Onbekend
31 Augustus 2016, 08:57
Don't panic. we have a vintage parts supplier in New Zealand who has several N O S vintage Fiat timing chains. We are checking if he has the one you want... I' will know in a day or two...
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Onbekend
31 Augustus 2016, 08:34
Chain looks very much like the Inverted chain on my Packard single six, & later models,
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Onbekend
31 Augustus 2016, 07:01
Perhaps a silly reply but the drive sprockets are probably easier to fabricate than the chain. Lots of companies out there will make you gears and the like. It maybe faster to replace with sprockets that fit available chain with the same tooth ratio as the old than to try to find unavailable chain?
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Onbekend
31 Augustus 2016, 03:59
I believe we bought a chain for our Fiat 509 from Ramsey, http://www.ramseychain.com/. Very friendly sales rep then and if my memory serves well, the chain could be used as direct replacement (no modification to gears etc needed). I think they also supplied "half link" as the lenght on 509 was not standard. Good luck!
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Onbekend
31 Augustus 2016, 03:22
I would say forget regular automotive suppliers. Many products that were once used in automobiles are still available from industrial supply firms. In American English they are usually referred to as "silent chains"... I tried a google search on "custom silent chains" and came up with several hits. If you haven't already tried this... give it a shot. I know that people have them made for 1914 Cadillacs.
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Onbekend
31 Augustus 2016, 01:56
Jeff: The English firm R M Fowler (www.chain-drive.co.uk) advertise in 'The Automobile' and may be able to help with a link. If not, we've had similar problems with our 1926 Dodge Brothers and 1923 German Elite, both of which use 'inch' Morse chain. We solved our chain problems by converting to standard duplex 1/2" roller chain. New sprockets are needed, but chain replacement is cheap & easy. A Dodge Brothers parts supplier has developed a conversion kit for DB. Our 1949 Fiat Topolino used duplex 3/8" duplex roller chain - Fiat must have changed after 1924.
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