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What colour to choose for George Roesch's finest saloon?
This is about the dilemma of Stewart Wilkie. While restoring his Talbot Saloon (hear-hear!) he has arrived at the point where he needs to decide about colour.
Stewart adds: "Very few of the type 110 saloons have survived as they were broken up for racing spares or converted into racing specials. Even more rare than the standard saloon is the James Young creation. Two were made and only one survives. My 1935 Talbot BA110 James Young sports saloon has the wonderful 160 BHP engine - designed by George Roesch the maestro. It was with a similar production car (not a single seater) that he lapped Brooklands at 130 m.p.h. After a 22 year restoration it wil be seen on the road by early next year. The photo above is the other one while my car - the survivor - was made for the Birkin family (Tim was one of the Bentley boys) so Brooklands green or Bentley BRG are the favourite colour options at the moment and with a month to decide I will have a bit to think on..."
Editor: In view of the Brooklands story, that shade of green seems to be more close to the essence of the car. Yet that's only our humble opinion. What would be your vote?
Editor (2): James Fack adds to the info about the James Young coachwork as provided by Pass & Joyce Ltd.. Archie H. Pass & Charlie J. Joyce were the partners in a car-dealing business which they described - rightly or wrongly - as the largest in London and its surrounding counties (the so-called 'Home Counties'). They also fancied themselves as coachwork designers, and during the early 1930s they were either the owners of James Young & Co., or its financial backers in one form or another: I've just received an e-mail from Tom Clarke, probably the greatest authority on coachbuilding in Britain - if not in the world! - and he has a 1936/7 Pass & Joyce Rolls-Royce and Bentley sales brochure in which every single body is by James Young & Co.!
I've heard it said that Charlie Joyce died young - in about 1937. Whatever, James Young & Co. was then bought by the major Rolls-Royce & Bentley dealer Jack Barclay, and he re-named it James Young & Co. Ltd. He then bought J. Gurney Nutting & Co., and transferred the latter's Chief Designer A.F.McNeil - whom many believed to be the best in the country - to James Young & Co. Ltd. Gurney Nutting then carried-on with John Blatchley as its Chief Designer - but he went to work for Rolls-Royce during the War and never left it afterwards: he part-designed the Mark VI Bentley/R-R Silver Dawn, and totally designed the Bentley S/Silver Cloud and the Bentley T/Silver Shadow! Gurney Nutting basically never recovered from this, and went out of business in about 1947...
Gepubliceerd:
dinsdag augustus 19th, 2014
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Reacties
Onbekend
23 Januari 2015, 09:23
Onbekend
30 September 2014, 20:51
I have some images with light colour schemes which really suit this car. Examples are Talbot saloons
Email and I will send
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Email and I will send
Onbekend
02 September 2014, 18:03
Lanchesters of the period always looked very fetching in black over navy blue, so black hood, roof, doors, trunk with navy blue wings.
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Onbekend
25 Augustus 2014, 08:40
The leather is a carmel/beige shade , which I would have thought would be used with any of the brochure colours. Shame its past saving.
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Onbekend
23 Augustus 2014, 07:40
I laughed when Stewart mentioned the colour brochure. When I had my car painted the coach-builder told me I could have any one of 23 shades of black!
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Onbekend
23 Augustus 2014, 07:35
What was the upholstery colour of this car? If it still had its original upholstery before restoration this would probably provide a clue to the exterior, since at that time it was usual though not mandatory for the two to match, or at least tone in. Exceptions could include brown interiors that often 'went with' cream paint and blue that was matched with grey.
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Onbekend
23 Augustus 2014, 07:11
My car is a much mre modest Talbot 65. I have Talbots own brochure for 1934 and the standard colours were black with blue, green, red or cream, or monochrome in blue red or green, the latter two being darker colours. this would not be relevant to a James Young body and you could choose any colour you wanted for a 'standard' Darracq body for £ 7 extra, but it shows the companys own thinking. Those 'black with' colours were quite light shades. Talbot had arrangements with Vanden Plas and James Young- those cmpanies built bodies approved by Talbot and they also helped sell the cars. The James Young body would have been monochrome. Above, note cream, not white. In those days white was very unstable so it was best to start with cream. Actually light grey was popular and appropriate, if not very exciting.
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Onbekend
22 Augustus 2014, 07:47
Thanks again. I have bought some paint brochures. What a mistake that was, now really confused. Ha ha. Maybe I should make it like a prize draw
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Onbekend
21 Augustus 2014, 18:09
Technically, British Racing Green does not exist! Connaught Green would be appropriate and fairly accurate for the date of the car. Remembering the 60's when there were still original cars around chassis and wheels were usually black. To be really accurate to the original, cellulose paint should be used.Wonder if it is still available. However, a fair number of upper-market, coach-built, 1930's cars were painted in quite interesting colours. 2-tone grey, for instance with one of the 'greys' being really a light-blue.
So, choose carefully. No more than two colours in any case and not too great a tonal contrast would be best.
Good luck!
Peter Maguire.
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So, choose carefully. No more than two colours in any case and not too great a tonal contrast would be best.
Good luck!
Peter Maguire.
Onbekend
21 Augustus 2014, 11:00
Thank you.
I certainly have food for thought. It seems the options may be.
Light Brooklands green body with the Birkin Dark green wire wheels and either polished discs or painted light green. A Light beige leather interior trimmed with Birkin Dark green to match the carpets.
OR
The reverse in Birkin Dark green as the main body colour
OR
Daisy cream with navy wheels and a light/blue leather interior trimmed with navy and carpets to match. Discs to be polished or daisy cream.
I don't want to two tone the body ???
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I certainly have food for thought. It seems the options may be.
Light Brooklands green body with the Birkin Dark green wire wheels and either polished discs or painted light green. A Light beige leather interior trimmed with Birkin Dark green to match the carpets.
OR
The reverse in Birkin Dark green as the main body colour
OR
Daisy cream with navy wheels and a light/blue leather interior trimmed with navy and carpets to match. Discs to be polished or daisy cream.
I don't want to two tone the body ???
Onbekend
21 Augustus 2014, 08:03
Tony I don't think any of us regard ourselves as experts.We are just expressing our opinion as requested! Cheers Phil.
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Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 22:50
Well Stewart- you did ask- seems when it comes to colour of your car everyone is an expert - this question produced more replies than any other for quite some time.
Tony. :-)
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Tony. :-)
Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 20:56
Here is some advice from the USA - regarding what sells and what does not: No white, no light grey, no green, no tan and brown w/orange wheels, no tan, no brown, no yellow, and no metallics (all be a little metallic on the trim may be fine). If there is an original photograph of the car then choose a color tone that is appropriate to the photo. And, wheel disks are always nice - they were "modern" in the day and still are today.
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Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 14:13
The most difficult choice during a restoration!
Some suggestions:
1. How were the cars painted in period?
2. A big car looks better in a dark color
3. two or 3 colors paintjobs can get annoying over time
4. check google photos of similar british cars (Alvis Speed 25, Bentley 31/2, Talbot 105) to choose a color scheme you particularly like,
5. Ask your wife, girlfriend, elderly aunt, female relative - they are much better at colors than men,
6. Choose so that it fits with your chosen interior color.
7. Have test samples made.
I hope we get to see the result!
Lees verder
Some suggestions:
1. How were the cars painted in period?
2. A big car looks better in a dark color
3. two or 3 colors paintjobs can get annoying over time
4. check google photos of similar british cars (Alvis Speed 25, Bentley 31/2, Talbot 105) to choose a color scheme you particularly like,
5. Ask your wife, girlfriend, elderly aunt, female relative - they are much better at colors than men,
6. Choose so that it fits with your chosen interior color.
7. Have test samples made.
I hope we get to see the result!
Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 11:36
Hi David. The alloy body had been stripped when taken off the frame and a fair bit was remade. The chassis has been painted or maybe it was stove enamelled I am not sure and the firewall done to match. I didn't look to closely. We will look at the lot shortly but I doubt if there is any paint left. It was black in the early fifties but it aint going to be black.
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Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 10:09
I find it hard to believe not even a trace of the original colour can be found somewhere, but at any event, certainly not multi-colour and certainly not ivory, it'll look like just another wedding car. No metallics either, they just look all wrong with modern paints.
Very dark BRG, almost black ( as BRG should be) or a deep burgundy red would be my choice, so many cars are spoilt by over-gaudy and inappropriate colour schemes ( like those Ruxtons in my view! Living in France you seem real horrors of two or three tone colour schemes!
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Very dark BRG, almost black ( as BRG should be) or a deep burgundy red would be my choice, so many cars are spoilt by over-gaudy and inappropriate colour schemes ( like those Ruxtons in my view! Living in France you seem real horrors of two or three tone colour schemes!
Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 09:21
Most importantly go for something that was possible at the time. As has suggested the new metallics were all the rage in the later 1930's. A recent visit to V.S.C.C. Prescott witnessed many restored cars painted in colours which were anachronistic. Our own Talbot is painted in a green close to B.R.G. and I dislike the colour as lawnmowers were also traditionally painted in a similar hue.
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Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 09:10
Ivory ! no way ,, it will just look like an old rover ,,, another beached whale ;) plus you will have to wipe it all the time. Another way of looking at it would be to check out what colours you have for your interior and match it with those otherwise you could end up with three shades of red for example. this might not be a bad thing of course if done with intent. colour wise i really like the old VW colours such as their champagne from the sixties, is a real favorite http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/type1_2.php or perhaps some of these http://www.pre67vw.com/colours/default.aspx?p=1 ,, or check out the design cards from gm and packard up til the sixties - they had the best colour combo pickers in the business. Or look to the customisers ... orange and tangerine perhaps!! sweet. Failing all that just go with what the missus says...
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Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 08:29
There is no details of the original colour so its a dilemma. The green or cream options are the ones I think. Just received below in regard to the design from historian James Fack (The Don )which is nice, Quote " A short while ago I bought David Scott-Moncrieff's 1963 book, 'The Thoroughbred Motor Car 1930 - 1940'. Its last chapter is called 'The Fourteen Crafts of Coachbuilding', and it has the following to say about James Young's work:
'From 1930 to 1940 they hardly built a single body that was not supremely attractive. Bentley, Lagonda, Alvis, even Bugatti - all the top sporting makes of the decade - wore James Young bodies of great distinction and superb appearance. For quality they were not up to the highest standard, but they were so very reasonably priced that a James Young body was about as good value as you could get.'
And, hence, their use by the London & Home Counties distributors Pass & Joyce to build their special coachwork on Talbot chassis..." Thank you Stewart
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'From 1930 to 1940 they hardly built a single body that was not supremely attractive. Bentley, Lagonda, Alvis, even Bugatti - all the top sporting makes of the decade - wore James Young bodies of great distinction and superb appearance. For quality they were not up to the highest standard, but they were so very reasonably priced that a James Young body was about as good value as you could get.'
And, hence, their use by the London & Home Counties distributors Pass & Joyce to build their special coachwork on Talbot chassis..." Thank you Stewart
Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 08:28
I agree with Phil. The original colour will have been carefully chosen to reflect the car's elegance and period.
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Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 08:25
Duo tone looks great if the colours work together and suit the lines of the car, even better go triple tone. Black wings and use black on the belt line though the middle of the body. BRG on top and a Jag colour Willow green on the bottom, have used this on my car and it draws admiring comments where ever it goes on the colour scheme, google David Egan Alvis speed 20 for example
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Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 07:49
My vote would be for a light colour, too. The Ivory or Pale Green already suggested, or Ice Blue or even Silver (metallics were the new trend in the mid-thirties);but definitely NOT Dark Green: the beautiful lines will be lost. If Stewart wants to link the Birkin theme, then perhaps a Red, darker than Pillar Box, but paler than Maroon, like the Birkin single-seater would suit.
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Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 07:05
Make it a multi-colour (with thanks to Joseph Urban)
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Graham Button
20 Augustus 2014, 05:03
If the original colour is known then that is the one to go for.
Graham.
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Graham.
Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 03:27
Very pale green with dark green leather interior. Lovely looking car. Well done.
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Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 02:36
Not sure this vehicle should have a dark colour - from 'A History of Automobiles and Colour'-
"In the 1920’s and 1930’s, cars were painted in a full spectrum of colours, often in vivid combinations. At the Villa d’Este or Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance one sees a veritable riot of colour that would likely be a bit shocking to today’s consumers: black with orange, yellow with orange, dark and light blue, dark and light green, red with blue, maroon with red, the palette was limitless."
Tony.
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"In the 1920’s and 1930’s, cars were painted in a full spectrum of colours, often in vivid combinations. At the Villa d’Este or Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance one sees a veritable riot of colour that would likely be a bit shocking to today’s consumers: black with orange, yellow with orange, dark and light blue, dark and light green, red with blue, maroon with red, the palette was limitless."
Tony.
Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 01:38
G'day Stewart. Ah Colour choice!!! The hardest decision during restoration! It can make or mar years of hard work. I cannot help except to advise not to go to the usual default (easy) position. There are thousands of cars painted using this decision. BRG Bentleys being a typical example. A line up of a dozen identically coloured bodies makes for not being able to see the trees for the woods. These days with the internet there are many sites with color chip samples. Lotsa research & good luck. Or you could REALLY frighten the locals with one of the Ruxton schemes on this page!
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Onbekend
20 Augustus 2014, 01:05
My vote would be for a light colour like Ivory. The fact that Birkin's racing Bentleys were BRG should not mean this car should be so. A combination ivory with blue could also be considered!
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I have decided (I think) to either do the whole car in Mercedes dark blue, black wheels, black roof and with or without the red strip to tie into the interior or Black wings, black roof and blue body with the red strip and black wheels. Photoshop mockups of both look good but the decision of which to go for is not easy.
In your case, mid 1930s cars were less austere and a bit more flamboyant. There's a good article on the RREC website explaining how their coach builders chose colour schemes.