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What’s going on with MG Triple Ms?
Last Summer we showed you a particularly nice MG P-type Special in our back-to-back series and compared it to a similarly nice 1934 J2 (click here if your memory is a bit rusty). These cars were estimated at £50,000 to 60,000 and £24,000 to 29,000 respectively.
1934 MG P-Type Special
Fast forward half a year and the PA-based Special is up for sale again, now estimated considerably lower at £30,000 to 40,000. Since we really liked the car this may come as a bit of a surprise? Yes, it’s not a road car and, yes, it’s not a genuine P-type single-seater (anyone here who ever saw one?). It is a car with genuine and honest racing history, though, which also harks back to the late 1940s. The PA was taken over by two gents known as Geoff Monk and Ray Masters at the time, who slowly but surely transformed the car into the P-type Racing Special. There are references in racing reports in a wide variety of magazines going back to 1964.
With shortened chassis, body made to kind of resemble Maserati’s 250F in dwarfed dimensions, modified suspension, brakes, steering and preselector gearbox plus blown engine it not only had the looks but did well, too. One racing driver who competed against it regularly, took it over in 1983 and continued development, now with Q-type engine. Other owners followed in the UK, Denmark, Germany and Italy. So what’s the catch? Well, it hasn’t been used for some 20 years now and will need full recommissioning, while FIA papers are out of date. But any real Triple M fan should know how to tackle this?
1934 MG P-Type
Oh - what’s more: there is an equally nice 1934 MG PA in the same sale, perhaps just as nice as the 1934 J2 of last Summer. That car seems ready to be enjoyed and is estimated at £18,000 to 23,000. Are MG’s Triple-M-models really in decline?
Words by Jeroen Booij. Pictures courtesy of Historics Auctioneers.
Gepubliceerd:
maandag december 7th, 2020
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Reacties
John Ball
09 December 2020, 19:31
There is no doubt the age demographic is not helping the Prewar car sales. You only have to go to any VSCC meeting and look at all the grey haired men in their 60’s and 70’s and even 80’s looking under the bonnet of a slow 1930’s something. Yes, I am one of those men !! The converse is go to many car gathering and look at all the Ford Escorts and Vauxhall Corsa’s. The current generation do not engineer a problem, they just buy a shiny new part. A lot of this is because there has not been any encouragement for the younger generation to get involved. It has always been a Dad’s hobby. It would help if the restoration companies would offer more apprenticeships. I am in my middle 60’s and would like to upgrade my car collection, as I don’t give a damn about values going up in the future, I want the car for what it is to drive now, whilst I still can. So, for me the ideal is for all classic car values to drop. Then those cars I could never afford become reachable. A lot of the 60’s top classics are not selling. I know two people trying to sell E types. Both the cars are absolutely immaculate genuine rebuilds in long term ownership. But as Barry Walker says, it is hard to tell the difference, when all the prices are similar. They should asking more but can’t. Even at their prices no one wants to buy them. Maybe if prices dropped then some of the younger demographic would be encouraged to buy something vintage with character, rather than spending £20,000 on a MK1 Escort !!!!
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John Ball
12 December 2020, 18:57
PA special sold for just over £40k and the other PA just under £23K
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Adrian Paul
09 December 2020, 12:31
I don't agree with Mr Scott - the 'professional restorers' do what they are asked to do by the owner. It's in their interest to do a proper job & not cut corners, but if the owner says they don't want to do it properly the restorer can only argue so much! As we say in the UK - 'the customer is always right' - NOT!
Over years I've seen (and still do see) numerous owners advertising in the 'Wanted' sections for a second hand piston (for example) for their P or J type etc. Why on earth would you fit a secondhand piston if you're rebuilding your engine properly? I tell you why - it's down to the owners trying to save money by cutting corners...
As we also say in the UK - 'Buyer beware'!
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Over years I've seen (and still do see) numerous owners advertising in the 'Wanted' sections for a second hand piston (for example) for their P or J type etc. Why on earth would you fit a secondhand piston if you're rebuilding your engine properly? I tell you why - it's down to the owners trying to save money by cutting corners...
As we also say in the UK - 'Buyer beware'!
David Scott
09 December 2020, 09:29
Well, whilst not choosing to argue with Mr Walker, I would say the blame for "poorly and inappropriately restored " cars is very much on the so-called "professionals," ? I accept they are responding to what the "arriviste" market demands, but they are the people responsible for destroying perfectly serviceable saloons to create faux-racers to polish the egos of their owners, and most of the poorly or inappropriately restored cars, usually sixties cars these days, emanate from very modest backstreet body shops who have miraculously become "restorers", 95% of vintage cars painted by these people are in wildly inappropriate colours and schemes, using base and lacquer paint to gove a totally wrong over-shiny finish. It's the "quick buck " types who have created this problem, who see old cars as a licence to bill the owner outrageous amounts for an end result worth about half the amount spent, as any five minute perusal of auction results and ads will show, and these over-restored trailer queens seldom have more than a couple of thousand miles after their expensive creation?
The fact is, the demographics are against the vintage car following and it's only going to get worse, to my mind, prices are returning to sanity, but I shan't be buying any more cars as I can see great difficulty finding buyers at any price in five or ten years time, if I am spared?
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The fact is, the demographics are against the vintage car following and it's only going to get worse, to my mind, prices are returning to sanity, but I shan't be buying any more cars as I can see great difficulty finding buyers at any price in five or ten years time, if I am spared?
BARRY WALKER
08 December 2020, 21:24
The problem is two-fold.
As John says, it is the demand for pre-war cars (not truely historic Bugattis & Alfas & Bentleys) but MGs, Morris, Wolseley, Austin and some Rileys that is in decline as the generations that remembered and fostered these cars sadly leave us. There are some younger ones coming through (sons of fathers who have been in the VSCC for example or brought up in a household where old cars were part of the family,), but generally demand is now falling.
The second reason is the dishonesty or inability of owners to describe their cars properly. There are so manty cars described as 'fully restored' that these owners should get given a dictionary for Christmas to understand the 2 words. So many cars now privately advertised are poorly rebuilt, unoriginallly finished and are dragging the properly restored cars down with them.
Well restored cars are getting tarnished with the same brush and this is a real worry, as such cars deserve a proper price, but get seen as 'overpriced' , when they are not , as so many poorer ones around them set the parameters. Buyers often can't see the important differences at the outset. Much depends on the knowcledge of the buyer, but compare a PROPERLY restored PA with the one discussed above at £18-£20K, and you can see why the one above is priced as it is.
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As John says, it is the demand for pre-war cars (not truely historic Bugattis & Alfas & Bentleys) but MGs, Morris, Wolseley, Austin and some Rileys that is in decline as the generations that remembered and fostered these cars sadly leave us. There are some younger ones coming through (sons of fathers who have been in the VSCC for example or brought up in a household where old cars were part of the family,), but generally demand is now falling.
The second reason is the dishonesty or inability of owners to describe their cars properly. There are so manty cars described as 'fully restored' that these owners should get given a dictionary for Christmas to understand the 2 words. So many cars now privately advertised are poorly rebuilt, unoriginallly finished and are dragging the properly restored cars down with them.
Well restored cars are getting tarnished with the same brush and this is a real worry, as such cars deserve a proper price, but get seen as 'overpriced' , when they are not , as so many poorer ones around them set the parameters. Buyers often can't see the important differences at the outset. Much depends on the knowcledge of the buyer, but compare a PROPERLY restored PA with the one discussed above at £18-£20K, and you can see why the one above is priced as it is.
John Bates
07 December 2020, 11:37
The cars are not in decline - it's the buyers. Those buying classic cars today are buying cars made in the 1960s and later. The market for most pre-war cars is in decline.
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Joop Terpstra
07 December 2020, 10:15
Declining prices of Triple M-models? But could it has to do with the usability of those cars? For instance a nice MG TC is perhaps more up to the task of long distance driving. To drive a 4 cylinder Prewar MG through Europe, in quick way, is not a easy task if it comes to reliability so most owners put that pre-1939 cars on a trailer which is practical but less adventurous. Anyway the OHC engines of those Prewar MG's are lovely to see them run and hear the high rpm but they need maybe more care and tinkering.....but that is my humble opnion ;-)
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